how these things happen

December 5th, 2006


Apparently, it takes a hoax to get people really saying what they feel. And what they feel is that the Nazis were pretty right on with that concentration camp thing, and the yellow stars, and the tattooing. These are, apparently, good American things to do, as long as they’re pointed toward non-Americans, like Muslims.

This article mentions a Gallup Poll that says that 39% of Americans feel that American citizens should carry identification that says whether or not they’re Muslim. Now, I have my doubts about Gallup, but that means that either they’re telling the truth, or that’s the truth that a large, opinion-making body wants us to believe.

Don’t believe that it can’t happen again, happen here, happen because of something you think or your friends think. Don’t destroy the tatters of America that the Neocons have left us to fight over.

Remember, the Nazis lost the war.

45 Responses to “how these things happen”

  1. cauley says:

    Frankly, I’m surprised at that 39%. I figured it’d be much higher, really.
    Look, there are stupid sheep everywhere, that’s no surprise. You can get people to sign on to just about anything. When an elected figure has the balls to stand up and propose such a thing, I’ll be more interested/worried. They’re the ones to keep an eye on. The radio hosts (hoaxes or no) and the people who call in to such shows aren’t worth my time.

  2. tal says:

    I wouldn’t compare it to the Nazis and WW2. As hard as I try to remember, I really cant think of any terror attacks done by jews in Nazi Germany in 1939.
    Situation is different now, the world is different, people feel less secure and more vulnerable, and the reason to mark someone’s religion (as much as that thought repells me) is not a dark, blind hatred, its a fairly based fear. I really dont see the similarity.

  3. Joshua says:

    Tal, it just depends where you draw your lines. “Muslims” seems a convenient line to draw, but what about Moroccans? Indonesians? Indians? Americans?

    Some other groups who have attacked or directly threatened America or Americans:

    The English
    The Germans
    The Japanese
    The Spanish
    The Cubans
    The Italians
    The Panamanians
    The Sandanistas
    The Russians

    I’ll tell you what, Tal: make it so that every American who subscribes to a group has to wear a little charm bracelet that tells all the subtleties of their identity and we’ll talk. In the meantime, “Muslim” is a bit of a broad brush for me.

  4. cauley says:

    Whoa. There is no reason to fear Muslims. There is a reason to fear extremists, however, of any shade or creed. Let’s set it straight: Islam is not the problem here.

  5. Carrie says:


    The situation is different but the motivation for the idea of making Muslims identify themselves would be essentially the same. As Cauley said, there is no reason to fear Muslims– or anyone based on their religion, ethnicity, or race. It’s fascists and fundamentalists we need to watch out for. You know, the people stirring up the fear you’re experiencing?

  6. tal says:

    Joshua, you got me all wrong. As I said, I find the idea itself repulsive. I did say however that the situation now is completely different than it was 60 years ago. The reason people answered the poll the way they did (not the way I would, as I mentioned before) is based on rational fear (and some good old fashion xenophobia too, off course). justified or not, aimed to the right place or not, its absolutely different than plain anti-Semitism.
    I agree, by the way, that extremists are the bigger threat. The reality is, however, that those extremists that threaten the USA right now are mostly muslims. I assure you that if the 9/11 events were held by buddhists, people would vote to mark out the buddhists. Its not blind hate like in 1939, its partly based on recent events.

  7. tal says:

    Carrie- couldnt agree more.

  8. Jeff says:

    I’d invoke Godwin’s Law but the thread started out there already.


  9. cauley says:

    Well, look who’s here: the thread Nazi!

  10. Rachel says:

    Cauley, your quickness to label others is really facist.

  11. cauley says:

    I expected that kind of response from someone like you, you Thought-Nazi-Hitler.

  12. Joshua says:

    Your mom’s a Hitler!

  13. cauley says:

    Typical– the Brown Shirt family is at it again.

  14. Nick says:

    When they asked for my papers I gave them some purple Post-Its.

  15. Rachel says:

    Ooh, look at me, I’m Cauley! (Goose-stepping while holding my finger under my nose mustache-style) I’m a vegetarian, I have quasi-pagan religious beliefs, I like a cold beer, I’m a snappy dresser!

  16. Nick says:

    Put your facist in
    Put your facist out
    Put your facist in
    And shake it all about

  17. Joshua says:

    I propose a new law. Let’s call in Newman’s Law:

    When someone mentions Godwin’s Law, the thread is over.

    Look at me! I’m Rachel! I’m pregnant like a Hitler!

  18. cauley says:

    Am I the only one surprised at the trivia my wife knows about Hitler? Kind of makes you think she might be a NAZI. Then you notice that her socks are all bunched up down into her shoes and you know she couldn’t be. Those people ARE snappy dressers.

  19. Rachel says:

    When Cauley came for the Pepperidge Farm cookies,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a Pepperidge Farm cookie.

    When he locked up the cat for shitting in the plants,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a cat who shat in the plants.

    When he came for the loud neighbors with car horns for doorbells,
    I did not speak out;
    I was not a loud neighbor with a car horn for a doorbell.

    When he came for me,
    there was no one left to speak out.

  20. cauley says:

    That’s just like you to propose new laws. Liberals *sigh*.

  21. cauley says:

    I like your last post, R, but I’ve made an edit:

    When Cauley came for the Pepperidge Farm cookies,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a Pepperidge Farm cookie.

    When Cauley came for the Pepperidge Farm cookies,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a Pepperidge Farm cookie.

    When Cauley came for the Pepperidge Farm cookies,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a Pepperidge Farm cookie.

    When Cauley came for the Pepperidge Farm cookies,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a Pepperidge Farm cookie.

    When Cauley came for the Pepperidge Farm cookies,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a Pepperidge Farm cookie.

    When Cauley came for the Pepperidge Farm cookies,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a Pepperidge Farm cookie.

    When Cauley came for the Pepperidge Farm cookies,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a Pepperidge Farm cookie.

    And so on. The rest is golden as-is!

  22. tal says:

    jeff- the whole post started with a big yellow star, I tried to expressed my resentment to that cheap analogy, if that was’nt clear.

  23. Rachel says:

    Wait- are you saying I AM a cat who shits in the plants?
    (and what would THAT arm band look like?)

  24. cauley says:

    You’ll see tonight– I’ve made up one for Tuli.

  25. Joshua says:

    I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again:




  26. Rachel says:

    Yes, they do. As do certain other groups who shall remain un-named. Coincindence? I think not.

  27. Joshua says:

    Tuli is a Hitler!

    Also, Jeff is a Hitler because of his silence.

  28. Jeff says:

    Is that star from the cover of John Zorn’s Kristallnacht as the header graphic up there? If so, kudos — that’s the most unlistenable album I own, and that’s saying a lot. There’s a track that just consists of digitally processed sounds of breaking glass.

    It’s awful!

  29. Joshua says:

    Nnnnnnnyyyess! Yes, it is!

    Also, I like to go to sleep to the dulcet tones of Throbbing Gristle.

  30. Jon Land says:

    And this is EXACTLY the same reason that Southerners didn’t get “Borat”.

  31. Joshua says:

    Evan, see option 2: this is what Gallup wants people to think other people think.

    I’ll dig up some Nurse With Wound and check it out. I’m very curious.

  32. Jeff says:

    Why would Gallup have an agenda? Seriously, they’re the guys who wrote a book on unbiased question construction in polls. If you’re throwing around accusations of bias, you should have a better source than “my friend who watched a thing on 60 Minutes a year ago”.

  33. Joshua says:

    Jeff, the question is not they would have an agenda — that’s clear from the link I posted above. The question is whether or not they succumbed to the temptations and inherent biases. That they know how to write an unbiased question doesn’t mean that they do. It just means they know how to phrase things carefully for a given effect.

  34. Gene says:

    I’ve never had a Muslim person come to my front door after seeing my rainbow flag, telling me that I am going to burn in everlasting hell.
    I can think of at least one other religion that should be required to carry identification cards.

  35. Joshua says:

    You know what’s crazy? The Founders of the country anticipated this. They said, “Hey, we live in a time of religious strife. I bet this’ll happen again. Let’s make an Ammendment about it!”

    And by gum, if they weren’t right.

  36. Tom says:

    Oh for fuck’s sake people, go drink your kool-aid and lighten up.

  37. Joshua says:

    I’m sorry, Tom, are you saying that it’s not outrageous idea that the government should track members of a certain religion on the assumption that they’re enemies of the state? That we should be cool with that?

    I ask because it’s hard to tell from your dismissive and angry comment.

  38. Jeff says:

    It may or may not be an outrageous idea — but it would also be outrageous if our government were planning on:

    • stealing babies
    • eating babies
    • eating more babies after they’ve previously eaten babies
    • being totally full of babies but still helping themselves to another serving of babies

    ..however, the thing to keep in mind when discussing the outrageous! things that outrageous! people suggest might happen is that, realistically, they’re not going to happen, so there’s little sense in getting too too worked up over them, right?

    Save your outrage for the realistic problems. It’s precious.


  39. Jon Land says:

    I seriously don’t believe that the government has a list of every known muslim in the U.S. I think where it comes into play is if a mosque, a church, a synagogue or whatever has concrete links to crime. I think it makes total sense to investigate other people who the suspects have come into contact with. So in this case, if a cleric has known Al Queda ties, it’s worth looking into the patrons of his establishment, and yes, they would be Muslims. I think that’s just logical. For instance, if you know that a short order cook is selling meth at a particular IHOP, you’d want to find out if any of the other IHOP employees were involved, so in that case you’d be “persecuting” IHOP employees, which is less politically incorrect, but it is a definable group.

  40. Joshua says:

    Actually, Jon, you bring up a good point: you’d have to register to be so marked.

    Jeff, here are some other things that aren’t going to happen:

    The United States won’t torture its prisoners of war.
    It will only fight in its own defense or that of its allies.
    It will adhere strictly to the Constitution.

    People in many states have now put into action the first rights-reducing ammendments to their constitutions.

    Jeff, man, the point is that no one, anywhere, is safe from the tyranny of the majority. It’s upsetting not because I think that there’s going to be anti-Muslim legislation passed tomorrow, but because 39% of people think that there should be. Those are the people around us. Those are American citizens they’re talking about. In the eyes of the law as it stands, those are people indistinguishable from you and me: they’ve committed no crimes and are not even under suspicion.

  41. Jim says:

    Never again. Never again will we just stand idly by and let them round up the Pepperidge Farms cookies. Pepperidge Farms remembers!

  42. cauley says:

    Jim, provided I am able to round up as many Pepperidge Farm cookies– particularly the de-lect-able magnum opus mint milano– I am all for restricting the rights of others (to round up Pepperidge Farm cookies). Sorry to rain on your cookie-rights parade.

  43. Jeff says:

    So what’s your point — the American people are capable of thinking stupid thoughts? No big news there. Have you seen, uh, television?.

    More importantly: what’s your suggested plan of action here? Control people’s thoughts? That’s kind of more fascist.

    I think this discussion has way, way outlasted its usefulness. Besides, we all know that “The Gallup Organization is yet one more mainstream American media source which is controlled by and/or advancing the destructive liberal/feminist/jew/nwo/zionist/sodomite agenda”.

  44. Jim says:

    How did that Gallup poll results make it into the U.S. media anyway? That should have been bumped for the “Paris Hilton wants kids” “story.”

  45. Jon Land says:

    Joshua, re: your remarks to Jeff.

    It sounds like you’re working under the assumption that most Americans think rationally and logically. Have you ever been anywhere between the East and West Coasts?

    This is the problem: Average Americans expect their government to protect them and their best interests because that’s what we’re all told the government is supposed to do. Many, many people are so turned off to politics that they just don’t care how this gets done. Fear is a powerful manipulator of thought, and the current administration has capitalized on this. Now that so many have been made so fearful, they truly believe that profiling, banning travel-sized toothpaste on airplanes, etc, are things which will help the governmrnt keep them safe. So I don’t think this is a tyranny from the majority, I think the majority is being hoodwinked by a minority with a loud voice and a far reach.

    I think the only way to settle this is to incorporate Arabs into porn. Once Joe Masturbator sees enough swarthy Middle Easterners penetrating American women, they will get accustomed to the physical appearance of different people and will become “colorblind”.